Kissed By Copper

#1
Greetings everyone!

I wanted to start a thread to discuss the magic and beauty of copper distilled oud oil. After getting to really know all the ouds that I own, a select few really stood out as oils I absolutely crave. So I put on a swipe of Ensar's Sultan Murad the other day and it hit me...all my favorite oils are copper distilled. There is just a deep soul satisfying quality to these copper distilled oils. If my intuition is correct I have a good idea of the oils I own that are copper distilled, but I'm waiting on emails from Ensar and Taha to confirm my suspicions, as not all descriptions tell how they are distilled.

I would love to learn as much as I can about copper distillation, what it imparts on an oil. How it is done ect. If anybody has any info I'd love to hear it. I plan on starting a copper collection.

Thanks everyone!
GM
 
#2
Here is a quote from ensar regarding Sultan Murad

I ought to add that what we did with Sultan Murad is something of an aberration, as most Papuan and Bornean and Indonesian ouds in general are as a rule steam distilled. So distilling a New Guinea oil in copper hydrodistillation apparatus was a first in the history of Oud, so far as I'm aware. Oud Royale I was of course earlier, but that originated from the Indonesian side of the island. Sultan Murad was 100% New Guinea raw materials.
 
#3
So far the only copper distilled Ouds I own are Oud Sultani, Oud Sultan Murad, and a sample of Cantik Candan. I find all of these to have a depth and complexity not easly found in my other oils. All of these seem to have an otherworldly floral note that is hard to English. In Sultani it is most pronounced followed by Sultan Murad which as it ages just gets better and better! I do get the floral notes in Cantik Candan but you really have to travel deep into its being to find it, I notice it more on clothing than on my wrist. I will try to do some detailed reviews on these oils for other copper lovers out there!
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#4
The ultimate copper experience is in fact afforded by a 2001 Malaysian oil we distilled alongside Oud Sultani. The raw materials for Sultani were gathered in Terenggano whereas Oud Ahmad hails from Kelantan. Both oils were distilled side-by-side, in copper pots, by the then distiller to the Sheikhs (aka rulers) of the United Arab Emirates.

Oud Ahmad is the best example of what can be accomplished with a copper pot, and really fine sinking-grade agarwood. I will be sending you a sample of this just to illustrate what I mean. If you'd be so kind as to share your thoughts with us and compare it to the other copper-distilled oils you've tried, that would be terrific. :)
 
#5
Ensar I would be honered to review Oud Ahmad...it sounds truly wounderful. I actually treated myself to a swipe of Sultani today and have been in an olfactory wonderland all day. I can't thank you enough for this opportunity.
 
#6
I also forgot to mention that I have a sample of Kambodi Kadeem, which I enjoy very much. I will hang on to this one for a long time considering it sold out!
 
#7
So from the little that I have gathered thus far. Copper seems to impart a smooth sweetness to the oil, a floralness in many cases. Compaired to stainless steel, copper does not conduct heat quite as well resulting in lower yields and a higher overall cost to the end product.
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#8
I also forgot to mention that I have a sample of Kambodi Kadeem, which I enjoy very much. I will hang on to this one for a long time considering it sold out!
Kambodi Kadeem was one of 10-15 different experimental batches of wild-harvested Cambodian agarwood which we distilled in December 2013 – January 2014. There are several other batches available, all displaying different characteristics of old-school Cambodian Oud, and some tending towards the more contemporary, fruity profiles generally associated with the word 'Cambodi'.

I launched Kadeem right when it was distilled so as to give everyone an opportunity to experience firsthand what happens when you mature an oil sufficiently prior to using it, as well as a peek into what a wild harvested Cambodi smells like when it is freshly distilled, and how it progresses to the classic Cambodian profile of oils from over twenty years ago.

Kadeem raised a few eyebrows, and many did not understand my purport in releasing the oil at that stage, so the remaining batches will not be offered for sale until I feel they are fully mature (anywhere from 1-2 to 6-7 years down the line).

So from the little that I have gathered thus far. Copper seems to impart a smooth sweetness to the oil, a floralness in many cases. Compaired to stainless steel, copper does not conduct heat quite as well resulting in lower yields and a higher overall cost to the end product.
Very true about the floralness. I will be releasing two twin distillations very shortly to illustrate the different scent notes that can be captured by using copper vs steel pots.

I don't believe copper results in lower yields than steel. The opposite has happened to me quite a few times, where a copper pot yielded considerably (upwards of 10%) more oil than a steel pot with the same exact amount of raw materials cooking right alongside it.

The oud distilling world is split on the copper vs steel question, and many will not distil a single batch of oil in a steel pot. And I know others, equally knowledgeable and talented, who would not touch a copper pot with a nine-foot pole.

I have seen oils like Oud Sultani, Oud Ahmad, and Mission: Cambodi Kinam come out of a copper pot, and the likes of Kyara LTD, Oud Royale I, Borneo 3000 begot by steel....

If I had a choice between a copper and a steel pot, which would I use? I'd go against the grain and cook stuff like Indian, New Guinean and Laotian wood in a copper pot, and Cambodian, Malaysian and Thai agarwood in a steel pot.

If I had it my way entirely what would I do? – We just designed and built five state-of-the-art pots that are half copper, half steel. Our new batches of Sultan Murad and Sultan Fatih will be fizzing in them very shortly! :D
 
#9
Ensar thank you for this post! Exactly what I was looking for. Also I'm glad you cleared up the copper yield issue I brought up. I'm here to learn!
 
#10
Hello everyone! Been away from the forums for awhile now. Thought I'd get back to my copper Distilled Oud obsession with a new oil review. Here are my thoughts on Ensar's new Aroha Kyaku!

Aroha Kyaku is a dark smokey delight on my olfactory palate! The oil itself is very dark and potent. Tiny swipes of this oil are all I need to envelope myself in a smokey intoxicating aura.

Applying the oil to my naked skin brings on a blast of alder infused jasmine-berry funk. Inhaling its aroma takes me deep into my psyche like only a good copper distilled oud can. It is a mix of dry woody notes wraped in subtle spices with just enough of that jasmine-berry to tame the smokey energy. After about 5 hours it takes on that smooth spicy note that I associate with a good Japanese incense.

This oil has great staying power and projection. At a killer price no less! Aroha Kyaku is a very welcome addition to my personal copper collection.
 
#12
Abdullah I did find similarities between Yaqoub and Aroha especially in that kind of dark berry-jasmine note. Aroha was far smoker and edgy whereas Yaqoub was more of a refined perfume of sorts. Yaqoub was not near as smoky. As far as how I'd rank Aroha I find it hard to rank oils on a number scale. I rather found Aroha very unique and it fit in a nice little niche in my Oud collection. For the price I found the quality outstanding.

I was not able to get a bottle of Satori Kensho, some of these bottles go so fast! Lol
 
#14
Here are my thoughts on Oud Ahmad. Once again Ensar many many thanks on letting me experience this wounderful oud!!

Oud Ahmad is the elusive sister distillation to the now legendary Oud Sultani. Distilled in copper in 2001, Ahmad has aged into an elegant perfume in its own right!

A drop of Ahmad on a crystal applicator has a most enchanting reddish copper glow to it. When I swipe Ahmad to my wrist I am greeted by the scent of beautiful ancient heated agarwood slivers. Mysterious notes of exotic spices dance and swirl on a subtle floral breeze. Japanese Mystics smoldering up pieces of the fabled Ranjatai wash over my soul. Lost in Ahmad's olfactory odyssey I encounter scents of woods, soft sweet herbals, and quiet otherworldly florals. Like a ship made of oud wood, filled with casks of rare herbs and spices, sailing on a floral infused sea! It shares the magnificent ethereal quality of Oud Sultani, and the deep psychoactive nature of a quality Malaysian oud.

Oud Ahmad is thick and as such the scent tends to stay close to the skin. The experience lasts about 5 hours on my skin. If you are an oud aficionado this is some of the best oud of days gone by......possibly never to return in our lifetimes.
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#15
Hopefully nobody will mind me rejuvenating this old thread for two reasons. I would love for Ensar, Taha and Adam to talk a little about steel vs copper.

But also Oud Ahmad. Seriously, if I didn't know Ensar to be such an honest chap, I would have swore there was real musk grains in here. And even then he had to swear to it twice! I even think I asked him what happened to the poor little musk deer that fell in when they were cooking the wood or something of the sort. This is an amazing oil that really has a true deer musk opening, which leads to a deep red and raw medicinal scent, I believe this was sinking grade Kelantan agarwood. Incredibly nice and unique.
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#16
Hopefully nobody will mind me rejuvenating this old thread for two reasons. I would love for Ensar, Taha and Adam to talk a little about steel vs copper.

But also Oud Ahmad. Seriously, if I didn't know Ensar to be such an honest chap, I would have swore there was real musk grains in here. And even then he had to swear to it twice! I even think I asked him what happened to the poor little musk deer that fell in when they were cooking the wood or something of the sort. This is an amazing oil that really has a true deer musk opening, which leads to a deep red and raw medicinal scent, I believe this was sinking grade Kelantan agarwood. Incredibly nice and unique.
Your notes totally mirror my experience @bhanny minus the medicinal scent. I am still baffled. Blind oud Ahmad would pass as musk not oud for me. The very same deeep deep note in Borneo zen is in ahmad. The floral and vegetation is like delicate fresh fennel and dillweed for me. In some 80 different oud oils none has any hint of musk but Ahmad. @Ensar would be awesome to get any insights from you on how this musk note came to be? Did the oil have it in its youth too?
 

Rasoul S

Well-Known Member
#17
Bump. Calling @Ensar for when you have a minute. We know the name is of huge importance to you. But tell us more about this musk quality. You saw it coming? Surprised you? How did it. One about and any other oud that has even have nots of the musk note?
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#20
Blind, Oud Ahmad would pass as musk, not oud for me. The very same deeep deep note in Borneo Zen is in Ahmad. The floral and vegetation is like delicate fresh fennel and dillweed for me. In some 80 different oud oils none has any hint of musk but Ahmad. @Ensar would be awesome to get any insights from you on how this musk note came to be? Did the oil have it in its youth too?
No matter what we 'distract' you with about the scent of pure resin unaffected by apparatus, there is a universal rule that applies to distillation, and it is this: Agarwood oil is like clay. Whichever way you shape it, that's the shape it's going to take. Or like a mirror. Whatever you reflect in it, that's what you're going to see. It is not like lavender or rose, or other essential oils. Yuzu is yuzu is yuzu is yuzu. Not Oud. Oud is the smell of the apparatus, reflected in the oil. So you know those nice fruity notes you smell? Most often, it is the reflection of the copper tubes in the canvas of the oil. You know those incense notes you can't miss in some oils? It's either the scent of steel (get a steel item from your kitchen and smell it, now) or a combination of the scent of steel with that of the high temperature curves the wood was subjected to while cooking.

In light of this, the scent of Oud Ahmad is undoubtedly the alchemy of subjecting a uniquely resinated Kelantan gaharu tree to the kiss of copper. Remove the sinking-grade resin-laden wood, and substitute high grade tigerwood. You get Oud Ahmad's lookalike cousin, Tigerwood Royale. Throw a few more jungles' wood in and go back in time: you end up with Tigerwood 1995.

(Now find a copper item. Hold it in your hand for a few minutes. Sniff your hand.)