Let Oleoresin Talk (LOT) Project

Discussion in 'Artisan's Talk' started by Taha, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. kesiro

    kesiro Moderator Staff Member

    Professor PEARL has spoken and we are all that much smarter. Well done ol' chap! I not only second, but third your observations. I would also include Lavanya with those two. The DNA is very similar IMO. I personally find these oleoresin emphasis oils extremely compelling and certainly crazy addictive. They have certainly expanded my olfactory horizon. There is some serious craftsmanship going on, not to mention that the wood had to be great.
    Rasoul S, bhanny and PEARL like this.
  2. bhanny

    bhanny Moderator Staff Member

    Awesome analysis my fine feathered friend. As usual. I greatly enjoy your posts.
    Rasoul S and PEARL like this.
  3. Shabby

    Shabby Active Member

    A post most excellent
    Say I, if I may dare,
    But one additional observation -
    If you, to hear, would care

    Surprised be not, at the virility of she
    Whose name is Lalitya: like Federer she may well be -
    His strokes are fine and graceful, such precision indeed is rare,
    But take notice also of his encroaching body hair.

    Nor fall ye prey to the false belief
    That the Senkoh is solely masculine relief
    For Nadal's blistering battles with bouldered swinging arms
    Are accompanied by a woman's care to countless lucky charms!

    These notions you have grasped, my dear friend Pearlito,
    A mere reminder this is, to reiterate what you know:
    As man is in woman, and as woman is in man
    So it can be with Yoda and an aspiring Padawan.
    Rasoul S, RobertOne, Kruger and 4 others like this.
  4. kesiro

    kesiro Moderator Staff Member

    b'oudsta rhymes has got it going on!
    Nikhil S and Shabby like this.
  5. Tuff

    Tuff Active Member

    Nikhil S, Rasoul S, RobertOne and 3 others like this.
  6. RobertOne

    RobertOne Well-Known Member

    How on earth did you get a video of me experiencing Oud for the first time!?
    Nikhil S, Rasoul S, Taha and 2 others like this.
  7. Tuff

    Tuff Active Member

    Watch this guy try oud for the first time during the second half of the video. The oud sampling starts at 3:25 . And be prepared to LULZ very hard.

    P.S. Too bad he didn't try the 80's version of Grey Flannel before '88, the violet note is amazing before they had to stop using it. Speaking of which, I missed a shitload of good stuff that sold out in the few weeks I was gone. :/
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  8. Taha

    Taha Well-Known Member

    Million-dollar question for you all...

    Do you enjoy more 'dramatic' oils, or 'fuller' oils?
    I would define dramatic as having a more prominent contrast between the top notes and base notes, and define fuller as being more 'stuffed' in the middle.
    Mind you, 'fuller' does NOT necessarily mean auxiliary notes (although it usually does), rather for the purposes of my question its in comparison to 'dramatic', namely: the top-to-base contrast is toned down more. Smoothed out, if you will.

    Both dramatic as well as fuller profiles are possible with high grade as well as low grade wood. And oleoresin-centric as well as auxiliary-oomphed oils.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  9. kesiro

    kesiro Moderator Staff Member

    I am all about the drama my friend. :D
    Taha likes this.
  10. Taha

    Taha Well-Known Member

    When you're pulling an espresso shot, you can increase the yield by making the grind coarser. Within the same 25-35 second pull time, you'll get more volume, more flavor, more intensity...
    ...but also more bitterness, more sourness, more weirdness... and other stuff getting extracted which is less-than optimal.

    With oud, its the same. There are ways to boost the yield the conventional way, but this method pulls out much of (what I consider) the less-desirable compounds. I'm almost certain that's the stuff Ensar was referring to in his CPC post in the Cambodi Musings thread.
    This is the stuff that gives oud oils the illusion of 'fullness'. Well, I shouldn't say illusion, because there are indeed those added compounds that make it to the final product, the oil.
    Of course, if done right, "fuller" oils can smell pretty awesome too. Its usually a matter of taste (it so happens I enjoy sushi, and the occasional biryani too). ;)

    Speaking of CPC, its uncanny Ensar went over those points in his post. I actually had a blog post written up (and already proof-read by our sheriff) which talks about the very same topic, I'll be publishing that along with my next product release.

    @kesiro, I'm with you on more dramatic. ;)
    Curious to know what everyone else enjoys!
    Royal Bengal Oud and Ensar like this.
  11. Rasoul S

    Rasoul S Active Member

    Indeed. Why is that?
  12. Oudamberlove

    Oudamberlove Well-Known Member

    The volatile top notes during the initial heating may mask the underlying woody notes, if you allow them to clear-out then cut the heat, you get a chance to capture those secondary notes when you reheat the wood.

    With Oud oil, some top notes also have a masking effect. I noticed it when I tried some blending.
    RobertOne likes this.
  13. Rasoul S

    Rasoul S Active Member

  14. PEARL

    PEARL Well-Known Member

    The resin has spoken....

    @Shabby there has been recent discussion elsewhere on the topic of "Let oleoresin talk", I applaud your ability to recognize context as it relates to discussion and for you actually reading the content of letting the oleoresin talk, round of applause. The topic of letting the oleoresin talk confers the relationship to resinous features in the wood and how certain notes and/or features are palpable and expressed in the oil, despite there being no actual oleoresin in the oil. Anybody that actually has read this discourse can pick that up.

    We've established that there is no resin/oleoresin in oils distilled from agarwood, it has to be extracted; that is objective, scientific fact. How is it that you vendor ASO can use phrases in your own marketing such as, "When you apply it on the skin, multiple waves of heat, bitter sweet spices not Ky nam itself but wow what an amazing derivative of it, fragrant rum, ambergrisified rose, and the distinct powdery but sweetly resinous note of the Vietnamese" for one oil or, "Then comes a wave of lovely rich fruits dusted in the finest of cinnamon powder and caressed with the whisper of rose that transcends into velvety wood sap, brushed woods, Oudh resin and a basket of woody spices" for another, or "However imagine this, the scent of oozing oudh resin bubbling in a caldron without the smoke simply pure oudh vapour hitting your olfactory senses. Fragrant herbs, resinous woods, deep dark ripened fruits, a breeze of floral clay, even some peppery spices" for yet another oil. Then, at the same time affirm and negatively criticize others usage of the term oleoresin in relation to oud oils as a misuse and bastardization of the term because it's not objectively and scientifically sound, and is only a marketing tactic. Dude, you do the same exact thing!!!! How is it that your oils can have resinous notes of Vietnam and Oudh resin and baskets of woody spice, having no resin, while you contend that others oils can't have features of the oleoresin based on the scientific, objective absence of it in oils and that it's wrong for them to use the term? Easy, because it's the duplicitous, contradictory, pot calling the kettle black nature of the content in many of your post. ASO, according to your own mandate for only quantitative, objective, scientific fact, you have misused and bastardized the terms resin and resinous in relation to oud oils for there is no resin in distilled agarwood oils and you’ve done so directly in you marketing as a tactic, period. Ambergrisified??? Where’d you get that from? As much as you like to criticize the story, you verbiage, adjectives, even the cadence of your flowery prose mimics the words of another.

    Now, in reality I have no problem with ASO's usage of resin/resinous in relation to oils nor do I have a problem with the participants of this thread that have used the term oleoresin in relation to oils as in each case they are used as qualifiers to describe something that as @Shabby stated, I know "where they're coming from", it's contextual not literal; just some of the possible vernacular and jargon of the community. But for someone, anyone to negatively criticize and nearly condemn others for doing exactly what they are doing is in extremely poor taste. Besides that, who has given anyone the authority to attempt to dictate how anyone else expresses themselves or experiences oud.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
    Rasoul S, Shabby, kooolaid79 and 6 others like this.
  15. Oudamberlove

    Oudamberlove Well-Known Member

    You should be a lawyer Pearlito, nothing escapes you. Keen observation! Thank you for bringing it to light. It seems a certain vendor painted themselves into a corner with this one.
    Ensar likes this.
  16. Nikhil S

    Nikhil S Well-Known Member

    Respected Oud lovers, irrespective of who the vendor is, what do the distillers really distill then ? For eg if someone says they distilled the most resinated malaysian wood chips what does it really mean ? I always thought powdering the chips and soaking would actually soften the wood so that the resin leaves it at distillation ? Cos Sandal doesnt have resin yet it gives oil ? Please help me clear the doubt. No oxfordian formats please lol. Lets just be wise and honest for a while.
    Rasoul S likes this.
  17. PEARL

    PEARL Well-Known Member

    "I just want to make a kind request to all those who support Al Shareef, our dear clients, friends and supporters, please do not get dragged into the dirty games that have started over at Gaharu. Please continue this discussion constructively. Let them hate on us, it is always the same individuals, whenever we as a community get into a fruitful dialogue it is the same people who try to turn it into a fight to create a distraction". by Jawed of Al Shareef Oudh

    Dear readers, for clarification where there shouldn't need to be any, for transparency and for edification; I solely addressed Jawed directly about the duplicitous nature of his discourse regarding the use of certain terminology, my observations alone supported by evidence. I kindly request for all of the readers to not be baited into the divisive initiative, dissension causing agenda of "them" and "us" perpetrated by a few; there is none, there is only me addressing Jawed. My views aren't representative of some idea of "group think" for the collective of gaharu.com and I presume that Jawed's views are not the collective group think of Ouddict.com; there is no "them" and "us", in this case there is myself and Jawed, we both share only the ability and authority to speak for ourselves. There is no "them" and "us", there is one online community with some members posting on one of the popular forums or both; I repeat, there is no "them" and "us" and the sooner we adopt the mentality as one community of "all of us", despite some choosing to only post on one forum, the better . Furthermore, there is no hate nor are there any dirty games to get dragged into; there is only me addressing Jawed and providing supporting evidence about his duplicitous behavior and actions regarding the use of certain terms, nothing more or less and I implore you all not to see it any differently.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  18. kesiro

    kesiro Moderator Staff Member

    So I am no expert but certainly have been very intrigued with this whole oleoresin notion.

    As far as I am aware, oud resin is 'oud oil', hardened by time and other natural processes. Oleoresin is nothing more then the hardened resin converted as completely as possible into oil form without anythig else added. Eg; the essential oil example Nikhil cites with Sandalwood. None of that stuff. Just the resin. The "oleoresin" oil production methods attempt to preserve as many of the compounds of this resin and try to not add any other notes. Typical high temperature distillations may burn off and lose, or even fail to extract a percentage of these compounds. Many of these compounds are more volatile and are often lost in the process. I have zero doubt that this is a real thing as the oils which reportedly are made this way are totally different from any other oils I have experienced. Not to say better per se, since there are oils clearly not emphasizing this process which I love as well, but definitely their own category. These oils have usually been very enjoyable at first sniff, but have been a LOT more challenging for me to crack their olfactory code. I have spent much more time studying these oils then any others. And these oils have had exponentially more psychoactive properties.
    My first true education of this category of oils was Chugoku Senkoh, followed By Lavanya from Taha. Taha has lately gone full bore into this category. Kekasihku, Darul Aman, and Khmer SK have taken this to crazy levels.
    Rasoul S, RobertOne and Nikhil S like this.
  19. kesiro

    kesiro Moderator Staff Member

    Your comments and points come through loud and clear my brother. I really appreciate those who choose their words very carefully. Your above comments and 'clarification' is not needed as your original post was a masterstroke of thought specific writing. The ASO comment is nothing more than projection, and either an intended or unintended attempt to create hostility and conflict where there does not need to be any. Of all the ways to address the situation, so many seem to choose the low road. Sad.
    I have scratched my head about the numerous postings by ASO for a while, strictly from a business standpoint. As a prospective customer, this type of stuff turns me off so much. I just don't get it.
    Oudamberlove, rodeoclown and Ensar like this.
  20. Nikhil S

    Nikhil S Well-Known Member

    I am simultaneously following both forums after a long time. I only see personal vendetta spoiling group enthusiasm. Will someone please help me understand the topic of resins ? If resin can only be extracted and not distilled then is Oud oil only product of lightly infected wood ?
    Rasoul S, rodeoclown and Larry K. like this.

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