Let's talk Oud: a detailed discourse on the various aspects of this substance we love

PEARL

Well-Known Member
A couple of things...

@Taha your analogy is apt, immersion into a world where everything is seemingly the same or at least so similar as not to matter. In many ways agarwood oils are like diamonds. To play with your words...

For the greatest majority, the eye (sight) does not venture too far past the overall basic flavor (generic qualities of shiny, sparkly) of the diamond(oudh oil).
I remember buying my then intendant spouse, now wife's ring. I was immersed in that foreign land where everything looked the same, I did know that I wanted the setting to be platinum but had no idea why one platinum 1 carat diamond ring was priced way more than another platinum 1 carat diamond ring. With oudh oil one has to first be interested, then expose themselves to higher quality oils and listen, with the diamond I had to educate myself. I learned about the 4 Pearls of diamonds and they do indeed relate to oudh oils. Carat weight~grade of wood, age of infection, wild vs cultivated, hygiene, filtering, curing, etc. Color~scent profile, richness, opulence, cohesion. In diamonds ranges from D-Z, absolutely colorless(the best in diamonds) to noticeable color. Clarity~what makes a diamond shine, how the oil reflects the pure smell of the resinated wood, complexity horizontal and vertical, horizontal complexity within the vertical and vice versa(Ammar), transition, smoothness, collapse or lack thereof. In diamonds graded from I3-many included faults to FL-flawless. Cut~the proportionality and symmetry of the diamond as cut by the artisan, the artisan and his ability to see through his vision by employing his materials and techniques, experimentation. I'm going to start grading oils this way; Lalitya- D, IF; Oud Isa D, FL; Hastakshar Kalakassi E VVS1. Just like diamonds, incremental increases in grade result in proportionally larger increases in relative price, despite them appearing or smelling similar at a glance they are not. Maybe some just need a loupe when assessing oils.

We all come from different backgrounds and for some English is not their primary language. To be clear, I intend no offense by the following only intend to help.

@Taha I touched on the z axis in my Manipur Mash Up report, except I used the term 3 dimensional. However, I used the term but did not think about the implications or short comings of such a term.

When you come on and talk about horizontal and vertical complexity, the x,y, and z-axis, as well as many concepts involving grades of oud and agarwood, many do understand. At the same time, many may not, the verbiage may be beyond their level of learning or comprehension. I know the vocation and profession of some here and what level of education they had to attain to be in that position and some are self taught, avid readers etc. with a higher comprehension level and/or intelligence, some are not. I suggest to try to use "layman's terms" in explaining the differences between true high grade and lower grades of oil because some simply may not be able to comprehend the concepts you're describing. Some understand but would never admit it, those can't be helped.

There's also what I'm going to call the "stick mentality". That's when one gets in their sample haul, rips open the package, smells each stick and runs and writes a review, makes an assessment or worse, compares the oils to others. In a thread called Side by Side on the other forum, my habibi Jawad from Al Shareef Oudh gives an easy and basic method for assessing and comparing oils and while some have developed themselves to not need his method, many do and should before comparing oils.
 
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A while ago, I had coined the terms 'vertical' and 'horizontal' complexity to try to simplify some of the basic things one can look for in an oud to measure it up. The problem is, the third plane is actually the most important. If horizontal and vertical satisfaction can be mapped on the X and Y axes, we're talking about the Z axis.
That's where the bell is.
And it doesn't matter how the oil was made, on that plane you cannot use clever tricks to make an oil interesting (apparatus and techniques). The wood does the talking.
As I was sniffing Nha Trang LTD late last night, totally blissing out obviously, I mentioned to Ensar that my concern is that perhaps some might find this oud to be monotonous. The most beautiful aroma in the world, undoubtedly, but monotonous. Its actually anything but. However, its entire scent development unravels in the Z axis. It smells like a million bucks (priceless actually, especially if you consider its replacement value, but my guess for the selling price like I told Ensar was $10,000 per bottle) but THIS oud, to me, is the ultimate litmus test. If you think its a flat (albeit sublimely beautiful) oud, your nose needs some schooling. If you feel like you're drowning (in an infinite Z-axis depth, like NOTHING ELSE that I for one have ever encountered), you got yourself a solid schnoz. :)
Z-axis to me, is the calling of the 'soul of the agarwood tree', that pulls me in like a black hole and arouse the soul stirring sensation within me. As Taha said, it is not about the horizontal deepness or vertical complexity; I have smelled many ‘pretty oils’ with such characteristic but those oils seem to be devoid of any soul in it. I will be the first to admit my olfactory senses are still pretty much mediocre but i have been lucky enough to encounter a few such soulful oils that simply knocked me off my feet!
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
Oh wow, I didn't even realize what would ensue. :p

I had merely shared my honest opinion with Ensar, knowing the true replacement cost of some of the oils he had been staining my arms with.
Its true though, if you crunch out some quick calculations you'd know the MSRP's Ensar listed are actually quite reasonable.

I'm sure if one of us inherited a one-caret diamond necklace from a deceased grandma, we wouldn't give it away for free even though it was 'free'. Now think about it.. Back when Ensar distilled these oils, they were still more expensive than said diamond necklace (being free, remember). Now, not only is the replacement cost way higher, but in some cases they are simply irreplaceable. What to do in these cases? :confused:
Case in point: an oil distilled from Nha Trang materials, 25% of which were sinking grade. I mean COME ON.
Judging from the huge heavy bag full of bottles of such oils that Ensar carries around, I'm sure the question "what to do?!" crosses his mind far more than it does mine.

Having said all this, the elephant in the room which seemingly keeps getting ignored is this..
Artisanal oud oils are not socks, or batteries, or even diamond necklaces.
When you CHOOSE to buy a Roja Dove perfume, a Rolls Royce vehicle, or a Zegna shirt... you're not paying for the chemicals or the metal or the cotton. You're paying for the craftsmanship.. the years upon years behind the scenes, behind the finished products.
So, when you buy an Ensar Oud oud, you're paying for his nose. If you don't like that idea, I'd like to see you build your own car and sew your own clothes.
(and YES, if you have even a fibre of muscle tissue in your heart that is not saturated with hatred and envy, you will realize this also holds true for oils that were cooked before Ensar was even born, i.e. Olde Ouds. Refresher: you're paying for Ensar's nose)

I can't help but think that how/who distilled the oil "matters" in it being a truly great oil. So aside from the high quality wood Ensar used to make them, I'm pretty sure it's his technique that made 'em great.
Well, I didn't want to say it before out of respect - and I hope Ensar won't mind me saying this publicly - but I'm just gonna have to come out and say it (I have only just hinted at this in the past).
Oils like Sultani, Royale No.1, Oud Mostafa No.1 etc are great. The quality of the wood that was used to make them redeemed them. But if you ask me, they are all flawed because poor techniques and horrendous apparatus held them back from realizing their fullest potential.
Purple Kinam, Sultan Ahmad, and the "am I allowed to talk about 'that oil', Ensar?" oil, run circles around the respective aforementioned oils, and they DING! whereas the former lightly tinkle the bell (and had lesser woods been used for the distillations, the bell would not even tinkle).
Any way, those are my honest thoughts, and I'm sure in his heart Ensar agrees (his "poet's poem" post suggests to me that he does).

Very interesting read Taha, and much appreciated. I have wondered about the same things. I do not know whether it is a factor of one's olfactory cortex not being receptive to the complexities and overall quality or more of an unwillingness to truly rely on it as one of the most primitive but most complex parts of our sensory nervous system. Oud, especially good and great Oud, requires a certain effort to fully appreciate and decode. It is not just taking a sniff and saying, 'I like this' or 'this smells strong', etc. You must peer deeper into the scent. Then the differences come out loud and clear. Well at least to me, anyway.
Oud is the most fascinating substance to me. Capable of almost connecting me to my primordial self. Can take me to deeper planes of though, peace, and spirituality. Like a window into the universe. But, ONLY certain oils can do this for me.
You don't need fancy jargon to be able to actualize the experience. PEARL's and Oud_Learner's posts demonstrate that this phenomenon can be expressed in a variety of ways.
A mathematical X-Y-Z graph or the mallet thing are simply the images it conjures in my mind (likewise an onion, for simple horizontal-and-vertical complexity aka richness and depth). If it burns, its fire. If it quenches, its water. If it satiates, its food. Even a toddler who hasn't learned to speak can understand these truths.
However, I haven't seen this particular aspect of oud discussed much until recently (you can imagine my delighted now!). I feel like a mommy hearing my little toddler learning to ask for wa-wah because she's thirsty. :p
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
When you come on and talk about horizontal and vertical complexity, the x,y, and z-axis, as well as many concepts involving grades of oud and agarwood, many do understand. At the same time, many may not, the verbiage may be beyond their level of learning or comprehension. I know the vocation and profession of some here and what level of education they had to attain to be in that position and some are self taught, avid readers etc. with a higher comprehension level and/or intelligence, some are not. I suggest to try to use "layman's terms" in explaining the differences between true high grade and lower grades of oil because some simply may not be able to comprehend the concepts you're describing. Some understand but would never admit it, those can't be helped.
Duly noted, ya sayyidi!
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
The moment Ensar confessed that he's never tried proper Gen3 spinach before...

View attachment 518
..'course, the real question is... should the spinach even be called 'cooked', considering the temp we're looking at. :p

Missing you guys already. I hope you guys managed to catch up on sleep. I finally did last night.
And by the way, @all, if you ask me, Kruger is the man who probably gets the least credit for what he does. Whereas Ensar is the Distiller (with a capital D), Kruger is the "arms, lower back and sweat" distiller who carries out many of these distillations.
Ever since I've been forced to resort to distilling everything myself, I have a newfound affinity towards Kruger. In cases where Ensar has projects running in multiple locations, Kruger silently pitches his tent in one of those locations and puts everything into action, after Ensar chooses the wood and devises the distillation parameters.
Kruger, ek groet julle!

So next time you are enjoying an EO oil, send a quick prayer Kruger's way.
 
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m.arif

Active Member
On a brighter side how about how bright the Vietnamese and Thai oils looked. From what you posted the Thai oil seemed to share similar colors with the Vietnamese would this be a correct observation?
Hey John. I just had a sniff or two (or many times that ) of the vietnamese and the thai.
"Special K" seems to be very suitable for this particular series. There's a certain something in this series that makes it different than the rest, yet something in common with each other. Waddya say @Taha ? In terms of discussion of auxiliary notes and the oleoresin, regarding the special K series. Is the special K attribute an auxiliary note or a technique that presents the oleoresin in the best possible way?

Lovers of Japanese incense and all things apprently simple yet deep in complexities (Z axis elements?), I bet they'd enjoy the vietnam any day. Like a zen master in the middle of a quiet room, laced with tatami and sipping tea, with sweet incense scenting the room. FO royal vietnam would be in the same big family as this one. Perhaps betonamu jinkoh as well.

The thai..apparently the distillation ended yesterday, and I got a generous swipe of the top note fractions of the Thai oil..guess what..it lasted a good 8 hours ++..fresh oil...TOP note fractions..sillage beast. Bitter, pristine, "well dressed"? Like a street thug graduating into a mafia Don, dark and serious, yet cool, collected, and refined (special K element contributes to this). Personally, it's unlike any Thai I've ever smelled. If you're bored of the tutti fruity plumy thai oils, don't give up just yet..This one might rekindle an oud crave in slumber..

Add to that the tightening/aging process that Taha will inflict upon the oils...I'm veeery curious about the end result. :)
 

m.arif

Active Member
They sound really amazing! Thanks for sharing your thoughts i appreciate it greatly.
You're welcome John. Plus, there's Taha's "blood, sweat (loads of it since Taha is like a polar bear living in the tropics), and tears" , but no worries, no real sweat contaminated the Oud. Taha is very obsessive about preventing contamination ;)

The vietnamese though, if I heard correctly last night, he's going to keep it for himself.
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
Yikes, this somehow got buried deep while I was a bit busy, sorry @John, didn't mean to ignore your question!
On a brighter side how about how bright the Vietnamese and Thai oils looked. From what you posted the Thai oil seemed to share similar colors with the Vietnamese would this be a correct observation?
'On a brighter side' - ha! Nice pun. :)
Yes, most of these oils are coming out super light. The one exception is the Malaysian, which was super dark green from the very first drop. Although the aroma does have a whole lot of depth and darkness (Pencerahan's equal), its overall aroma is actually quite bright and penetrating.
As for the others, then yes they're all very light.
Dammit, I had decided I won't post anymore about ongoing distillations until they're completed, but check out this current Cambodian distillation.
cambo.jpg
@m.arif saw its sister distillation (the one Ensar donned "Khmer Rosso") being conducted at an even lower temperature (@m.arif, I forget - was it 65°C?), on top of that it was a copper brew (I've always gotten lighter oils in copper) whereas the current one is steel.
The first oil was pitch black. The current one is running about 10°C higher and yet its still bright yellow-green. Goes to show you, the color isn't always an indication of the cooking temperature (Rosso, Ambrosia, Pencerahan.. among others, like Ketenangan, Chamkeila, etc), although usually it is (Mahabali, Sultan's Succor, etc.).

You're welcome John. Plus, there's Taha's "blood, sweat (loads of it since Taha is like a polar bear living in the tropics), and tears" , but no worries, no real sweat contaminated the Oud. Taha is very obsessive about preventing contamination ;)

The vietnamese though, if I heard correctly last night, he's going to keep it for himself.
I'm still undecided. The new counterpart I cooked in Vietnam is really starting to reveal its awesomeness. If it gets close enough to the Special K, I'll keep the latter for myself. If not, then there's no way I can bring myself to not share it with others. :)

Waddya say @Taha ? In terms of discussion of auxiliary notes and the oleoresin, regarding the special K series. Is the special K attribute an auxiliary note or a technique that presents the oleoresin in the best possible way?
Nope, its all about the wood. These specific batches of wood displayed that 'Special K' streak, which made them so special, and is the reason why they smell the way they do.
I've done plenty of distillations with similar parameters and they don't have this. So nope, its not a trick/auxiliary note. Deliberately amplified, though...? Oh yes, you betcha!
 
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kooolaid79

Well-Known Member

Can you smell that tune I'm smellin? There's a scent on my mind's nostrils. And it's not an easy smell. Brunei. #oudless
Cant really tell if that's a worried expression/reaction or a reaction which has you lost in deep thought. Given the limited information and knowledge you gave about the situation in Brunei showing less and more less of quality Oudh, I would say that your expression is more worrisome than thought but I am probably wrong but that's just my guess.