Let Oleoresin Talk (LOT) Project
- Thread starter Taha
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@Alkhadra As salaamu alaykum, I pray all finds you well Insha'Allah,
Jawed made the affirmation and presumed that the usage of the term oleoresin in relation to distilled agarwood oils was a misuse and bastardization of the term secondary to there being no resin in the oil. This is one community with two popular forums, I'm not allowed to post on the other forum or I would have stated my observation there. I directly approached Jawed as best I could here because I found his behavior duplicitous. He surmises that the term oleoresin's usage is misuse when related to oils yet uses terms resin and resinous in relation to oils yet doesn’t realize that he is also misusing the terms based on his own premise; duplicitous and contradictory of himself, unless of course he concedes to misusing and bastardizing those terms, which he won't.
Jawed has the uncanny ability and bad habit of having duplicitous behavior and actions, an iniquity that has been pointed out to him numerous times since the inception of Ouddict.com by myself as well as other members who choose to no longer post there in big part because of it; and he does so with the energetic petulance of a tantrum throwing child. To be frank I find it appalling. @Shabby made the statement, "I did not leave from any bad will but simply am choosing to spend my time a little differently", IN MY OPINION his statement is about time, the realization that he was wasting time and the futility of trying to tell Jawed what LOT is about when as usual he refuses to listen.
In building on what @kesiro stated about scrathing his head about Jawed in relation to his business approach, Jawed likes to say Dear consumers, I wonder if he has ever considered the fact that I'm one of them and possibly Shabby too.
WITHOUT understanding the premise....
The discussion started when Jawed made the affirmation that oleoresin is not able to be drawn from agarwood during distillation, hence the usage of the term in relation to oils in this LOT thread was a misuse and bastardization of the term. As a reader here @Shabby made every possible attempt to inform Jawed that the discussion of LOT was not, is not and never was about there being resin in the oils but rather nomenclature used in describing scent features of certain oils; it fell on deaf ears. Jawed's affirmation falls flat, he compared zebra to monkeys. Jawed indeed made his affirmation that the term was misused and bastardized, WITHOUT understanding the premise.....
I apologize in advance @Ensar for the crap storm that may ensue because of ME addressing JAWED, as the unfortunate usual course of events is attack on you whenever anybody who posts here says anything about fallacies or flaws I personally see on someone who posts there.
Jawed made the affirmation and presumed that the usage of the term oleoresin in relation to distilled agarwood oils was a misuse and bastardization of the term secondary to there being no resin in the oil. This is one community with two popular forums, I'm not allowed to post on the other forum or I would have stated my observation there. I directly approached Jawed as best I could here because I found his behavior duplicitous. He surmises that the term oleoresin's usage is misuse when related to oils yet uses terms resin and resinous in relation to oils yet doesn’t realize that he is also misusing the terms based on his own premise; duplicitous and contradictory of himself, unless of course he concedes to misusing and bastardizing those terms, which he won't.
Jawed has the uncanny ability and bad habit of having duplicitous behavior and actions, an iniquity that has been pointed out to him numerous times since the inception of Ouddict.com by myself as well as other members who choose to no longer post there in big part because of it; and he does so with the energetic petulance of a tantrum throwing child. To be frank I find it appalling. @Shabby made the statement, "I did not leave from any bad will but simply am choosing to spend my time a little differently", IN MY OPINION his statement is about time, the realization that he was wasting time and the futility of trying to tell Jawed what LOT is about when as usual he refuses to listen.
In building on what @kesiro stated about scrathing his head about Jawed in relation to his business approach, Jawed likes to say Dear consumers, I wonder if he has ever considered the fact that I'm one of them and possibly Shabby too.
WITHOUT understanding the premise....
The discussion started when Jawed made the affirmation that oleoresin is not able to be drawn from agarwood during distillation, hence the usage of the term in relation to oils in this LOT thread was a misuse and bastardization of the term. As a reader here @Shabby made every possible attempt to inform Jawed that the discussion of LOT was not, is not and never was about there being resin in the oils but rather nomenclature used in describing scent features of certain oils; it fell on deaf ears. Jawed's affirmation falls flat, he compared zebra to monkeys. Jawed indeed made his affirmation that the term was misused and bastardized, WITHOUT understanding the premise.....
I apologize in advance @Ensar for the crap storm that may ensue because of ME addressing JAWED, as the unfortunate usual course of events is attack on you whenever anybody who posts here says anything about fallacies or flaws I personally see on someone who posts there.
A
Brother PEARL, we are on very similar tracks... Now keeping in mind that Jawed literally says that you CAN use the term "Oleoresin" as an expression of scent, it is at this point that I do not find any hypocrisy in him using the terms "resin" and "resinous". I did also did not see the attempts made by Shabby, his posts are there for everyone to read. I also happened to misunderstand what he was trying to relay in his message, and now you have made it clear.
As for this..
If this refers to me in any way, then I sincerely apologize if my words might have been interpreted as such, for it was not my intention to attack. Accept my apologies both you and @Ensar if any of you got that vibe from me. My purpose is to shed light on what I see as truth, which I'm sure is your purpose as well, although we have differing opinions.
As for this..
If this refers to me in any way, then I sincerely apologize if my words might have been interpreted as such, for it was not my intention to attack. Accept my apologies both you and @Ensar if any of you got that vibe from me. My purpose is to shed light on what I see as truth, which I'm sure is your purpose as well, although we have differing opinions.
A
As for this..
لا صحت لسان و لا صحت فعائل، كلامك ينفي بعض الجزائل
الم ترى سرجان بعض الحمائل، و هرجان الجماجم و سفيه السكان
لا ينفعك الشتم.. هي من الرذائل، توب لله يا عبد الرحمن
انوب عن ربعي اكرام السبائل، فانا الشريف الهاشمي بكل ميدان
My sincerest apologies for speaking in a language that is foreign to the forum, this is the most befitting way I found to relay my message (which is actually a poem).
لا صحت لسان و لا صحت فعائل، كلامك ينفي بعض الجزائل
الم ترى سرجان بعض الحمائل، و هرجان الجماجم و سفيه السكان
لا ينفعك الشتم.. هي من الرذائل، توب لله يا عبد الرحمن
انوب عن ربعي اكرام السبائل، فانا الشريف الهاشمي بكل ميدان
My sincerest apologies for speaking in a language that is foreign to the forum, this is the most befitting way I found to relay my message (which is actually a poem).
@Alkhadra So why then say that its use in the LOT thread was a misuse and bastardization? That is what LOT is about, expression; the very nature of the LOT discussion. Please ask him to edit his posts and remove that it's misuse and bastardization and see what happens, you've stated that Jawed states the term can be used as an expression so that would be the right thing to do. Let us see if he'll do what's right.
It was not directed at you @Alkhadra as I've always found you to be a voice of reason.
It was not directed at you @Alkhadra as I've always found you to be a voice of reason.
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Ensar, did you say philosophize with a hammer or with hemlock? What happened to that old man anyway?
(Btw, I don't seem to be able to find the controversial posts in this thread, and even though it apparently matters to experts, I have no idea why these distinctions are so important. But when people start talking Socrates, I've just gotta pipe up. )
(Btw, I don't seem to be able to find the controversial posts in this thread, and even though it apparently matters to experts, I have no idea why these distinctions are so important. But when people start talking Socrates, I've just gotta pipe up. )
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Ah, the old man! Well, they said he was corrupting young folks' olfactory sense with some seriously resinous oils, so they tried everything they could to get rid of him, from character assassination to all manner of slander and quasi-philosophical humbug.
I, too, didn't find any controversy; just straightforward logic debunking controversy. But that is the nature of it. Play the fool and philosophize while at it, and eventually someone will listen.
I, too, didn't find any controversy; just straightforward logic debunking controversy. But that is the nature of it. Play the fool and philosophize while at it, and eventually someone will listen.
Side-ish question:
@Ensar pardon me if this is said before. I searched your site and forums before posting.
can you kindly shed more light on both
1) the literal meaning of senkoh and why it gets attached to many of your oils from different origins? Is it a unique trait in the wood or technique to these oils? Or both Much like kyen oil is both unique material and also distillation style. JSL.
2) can you kindly share with us what aromatic or, just what is this quaility of the oils with senkoh in name that share in common? How do we pick em out? I am on only familiar with one senkoh:suriranka but soonish choguko too i hope. What can I expect from choguko in relation to surirankah?
Thank you in advance
@Ensar pardon me if this is said before. I searched your site and forums before posting.
can you kindly shed more light on both
1) the literal meaning of senkoh and why it gets attached to many of your oils from different origins? Is it a unique trait in the wood or technique to these oils? Or both Much like kyen oil is both unique material and also distillation style. JSL.
2) can you kindly share with us what aromatic or, just what is this quaility of the oils with senkoh in name that share in common? How do we pick em out? I am on only familiar with one senkoh:suriranka but soonish choguko too i hope. What can I expect from choguko in relation to surirankah?
Thank you in advance
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Well said. And I hadn't fully understood this till now. Respect.
I see the dif you speak of when comparing ASO context f usage for "resin" and what @PEARL suggested. I humbly strongly fall on side of the context here made all the difference. Ie ASO did NOT act as hypocrite.
In regards to your point against shabby. I just don't see it. I find myself in agreement with @Shabby
I see the dif you speak of when comparing ASO context f usage for "resin" and what @PEARL suggested. I humbly strongly fall on side of the context here made all the difference. Ie ASO did NOT act as hypocrite.
In regards to your point against shabby. I just don't see it. I find myself in agreement with @Shabby
I regret telling people about copper pots vs steel, different water types, different soak vessels, etc. Read enough of this forum (especially the posts from 2011-12) and you can begin to see how it was a breeding ground for competition throwing my own words right back at me. I don't mind competition, and ultimately the market will decide who's selling what is worth their hard-earned money and who is not; I just don't like competing with my own clones. So the kind of information sharing that you're after is a thing of the past, I'm afraid.
All the quotes by @Alkhadra are correct. Resin CAN be distilled into oil, and I utilize distillation and not extraction (unless I expressly say otherwise, as in the case of Guallam Solide). Other than that, I am not at liberty to say anything. My oils are my spokeswomen. Ask them, and they will surely tell you everything you need to know.
All the quotes by @Alkhadra are correct. Resin CAN be distilled into oil, and I utilize distillation and not extraction (unless I expressly say otherwise, as in the case of Guallam Solide). Other than that, I am not at liberty to say anything. My oils are my spokeswomen. Ask them, and they will surely tell you everything you need to know.
Bingo. Yet I still disagree with @aso on stance that these genre of oils don't fit oudh and need their own category like fruity oud or floral... I disagreedb/c you cannot belittle these oils into one simple sounding, uncomplex, straightforward oils. Some sure. But others are d finitely not that. These are living examples of different dimension. Yes. Have not smelled more than 100-120 oud oils in my life but at least these are from very many very different suppliers and also up and down all the styles and more importantly price range. I have oils that 3 gram equivalent would be from $45 to $3500~
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I also disagree. I disbelieve in any attempts to try and define Oud/Oudh. We did not invent Oud. When did we get the right to choose what Oud is?
Whether it be ASO saying that these new oils don't fall into the realm of Oud.
or Ensar saying that CO2 extraction doesn't fall into the realm of Oud.
I had a conversation with a vendor in private, and he shared with me his opinion that if you want to see true Oud, you should smell the Ouds of Chinese and Japanese Masters. We both reached an agreement that we do not define Oud based on the standards of other cultures.
Can a barny Hindi be a Chen Xiang oil?
Can a CO2 exctract be an Oud oil?
Who cares..? I sure don't.
We are here not because love Oud, or Oudh, or Gaharu, or Jinkoh, or Chen Xiang, or Agarwood. We are here because we love Oud and Oudh and Gaharu and Jinkoh and Chen Xiang and Agarwood.
Whether it be ASO saying that these new oils don't fall into the realm of Oud.
or Ensar saying that CO2 extraction doesn't fall into the realm of Oud.
I had a conversation with a vendor in private, and he shared with me his opinion that if you want to see true Oud, you should smell the Ouds of Chinese and Japanese Masters. We both reached an agreement that we do not define Oud based on the standards of other cultures.
Can a barny Hindi be a Chen Xiang oil?
Can a CO2 exctract be an Oud oil?
Who cares..? I sure don't.
We are here not because love Oud, or Oudh, or Gaharu, or Jinkoh, or Chen Xiang, or Agarwood. We are here because we love Oud and Oudh and Gaharu and Jinkoh and Chen Xiang and Agarwood.
Unfortunately, he missed.... Language has rules. Words have finite meanings and precise definitions. Oud is a very distinct aromatic. Just like Ruh Gulab. Can Ruh Gulab be CO2 extracted or does it need to be hydrodistilled? Can an absolute be steam distilled, or does it need to be drenched in hexane then purified in ethanol?
If anything goes, the way @Alkhadra postulates, then we might as well adopt the Khaleeji aesthetic that "If it looks like oud and it smells like oud, it IS oud (DOP included)."
If anything goes, the way @Alkhadra postulates, then we might as well adopt the Khaleeji aesthetic that "If it looks like oud and it smells like oud, it IS oud (DOP included)."
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