Let's talk Oud: a detailed discourse on the various aspects of this substance we love

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#61
Hey Taha. Seriously. Prayers for your safe return and success on the hunt!

@all - I have become seriously infatuated with the Kinam note. I'd love the experts opinions, comnents, education, etc. What defines Kinam? Kyara? All I know is I can't get enough and it does something for my psyche nothing else does.
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#62
*gulp* Jungle, here I come..... I can totally feel the night attacks of cold sweats coming :p
Taha, may your journey be a safe and successful one! The minute you find king super, forearm-length, pitch black China grade stuff, give me a call! :p

Not sure how much incense grade stuff you'll come across for making oils, but if there's any surplus, you know who would be more than happy to relieve you of it! ;)

Allah ma'ak, habibi!
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#63
I have become seriously infatuated with the Kinam note. I'd love the experts opinions, comnents, education, etc. What defines Kinam? Kyara? All I know is I can't get enough and it does something for my psyche nothing else does.
Uh-oh..... You just opened a whole other can of indescribables, bhanny! I can sit here and talk kinam all day and all night. So, what is it exactly that has got you so infatuated? – Is it the actual kinam wood used for heating, as in a Kodo ceremony; or are you referring to the kinam note you pick up in various oud oils?
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#64
@Ensar - I would mostly say the kinam note in various oils as that is the only thing I've experienced so far, though I am looking forward trying the wood as well. So I guess both. But let's start with the the oils.
 
#65
Asalamualaykum, peace and greetings to all.

Just would like to take a moment to appreciate the fact that we as Oud Lovers have a forum to connect and discuss directly with those who are directly involved in creating a legacy which has literally revolutionised this beautiful tradition. Years down the line, after we return to our Maker...we have all had a chance to be part of this experience and will own Ouds which will undoubtedly be the picassos of the future to be passed on down family lines and generations with pride. There has already been reflection on the 'oriscent days'....I missed that phase and can already see how people reminisce about that period of time.

It is probably clear that further new entries into the artisinal wild oud market from here on out is futile and those who have managed to establish themselves will by the Will of Allah have their positions cemented and certified as the last men standing bringing Pure artisanally distilled Oud to us loving collectors. Seems like people like bhanny have realised this reality and taken action to make up for lost time. Well done bro, I am more motivated too now :)
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#66
Awesome to see you here Taherg! And isn't it amazing. How cool is it to have Ensar, Taha and Adam here?!? I also missed the Oriscent days and I am working to try to get some of those jewels, but to be honest, these guys are making so many good ones now I am snatching them up. Glad I could help with the motivation! But taking a whiff or two of these beauties is all the motivation you will need!
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
#67
Wa alekum asalam wa rahmatullah dear Taher, welcome…
Thank you all for the beautiful discussion and sharing your thoughts and experiences.
I do apologise for not posting earlier as there were few things happening at the same time and i wanted to give this topic its due...
What is the true art / good oud oil?
Let me share my view on this subject.

To me any type of art in general and in particular the one related to oud oil consist of a several aspects.
First of all for art to take place one must have an artist (his soul, personality, signature, his values and beliefs) , his hands (perhaps nose, eyes, ears, legs or any other organs that are involved in the process) instruments (boilers, condensers, technics) raw materials (agarwood) and finally the outcome ( oud oil) of artist action.

The outcome must have a positive, deep, unique and memorable reflection on ones soul.

If I look at it as a consumer definitely the main thing that matters is the out come (oud oil) and its impact on me/ my soul.
If a particular oud oil able to leave a strong positive, memorable and pleasant reflection on our soul it is definitely a good oud oil.
There are a different levels of this impact which makes us value some oils more then other.

However, if i look at it as a distiller it is quite different. The out come (oud oil) is just as important as ANY other aspect of the process.
Just thinking, planing, designing the future oud oil already has such an amazing, uplifting reflection on my soul.
Then comes the process of sourcing raw materials interacting with people, observing, learning, sharing and finally finding your desired raw materials. This bring another level of satisfaction and uplifts the soul.
The testing, examining the woods, by touching, chewing, smelling, heating it is a whole chuck of excitement and enjoyment for the soul.
Soaking… oh boy there are so many joy in it. Most people (even almost all the distillers that i meet) are making sour face once come across a pot where agarwood is soaked for 1-2-3 weeks or even more. It smells stinky to them. For me, on the other hands it is such a joy to see how a certain batch of agawood is reacting and behaving once soaked. Put your hands in it and stir it, smell and feel the water alone, the wood with water, squeeze the wood and smell it with out water. Each time feeling different layers and nuances of the aroma. I have had a pleasure stirring the wood that has been soaking for a month every single day or even twice a day. Each time after that smelling my hand and that amazing scent easily can give a credit to some of the deepest pure agarwood oils i have tried. Different materials of the soaking pot and its influence on aroma. Different waters. Different temperature during soaking and its impact… and many other aspects of this beautiful process that brings so much satisfaction and joy to me and my soul…
Then come the moment you wait with such a joy … Placing the raw materials in to the boiler and lighting up the fire.
First drops of oi sliding down a condenser is like a tears of joy sliding down ones face…
Adjusting the temperature and seeing how the wood/steam/oil flow reacts to it…
Smelling the hydrosol daily examining its development and making sure it is progressing the way you desire…
Sudden decisions to increase or decrease the temperature, continue or stop the distillation based on you feelings, emotions, the scent of hydrosol or the colour of the oil or the water in the boiler or some other factors… Complete satisfaction once the right decision is made…
Collecting the oil… oh… not sure if there are any other moment that brings so much happiness to my soul…
Not to mention the bliss of catching the final drop sliding down the funnel to test the newly born oud oil…
Seeing the whole process, all the tweaks and technics in the aroma… Seeing there a part of yourself… Finding in the aroma some surprises or the things that you were expecting to find…

All this process mean so much to me and has a very deep impact on my soul and that is the main reason why I feel obliged to share it (in my pictures and videos) again and again and invite every one who truly value it to be with us during this journey. Pulling together a video and pictures and then combining them is a whole another topic that also brings many positive emotions and satisfaction. We hope to share at least a small portion of this pure joy and happiness that we go through by bringing to life oud oils of a different kinds.

As for oud oils… lets leave this for ouddicts to decide weather a certain oud oil is a piece of art or not…
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
#68
First drops of oi sliding down a condenser is like a tears of joy sliding down ones face…
I'm still in Malaysia and I have an insane amount of stuff to wrap up today (last work day here, Friday) before the trip, because some other stuff unexpectedly ended up consuming Thursday.

..but I just had to comment on this quote from Adam.
Dude, you made me choke. My heart fluttered, my throat mixed up my esophagus and larynx, I gasped. Reading your words, for a moment I relived that exact moment. The feeling of watching the first drop of oil come out cannot be expressed, it has to be experienced. I'd imagine it is the same feeling women experience when they give birth. Well, maybe physical pain triumphs over everything else in that case, but from an emotional perspective seeing life being born in front of your eyes is a climax of various emotions that cannot be expressed in words.

Thanks @all for the well wishes! Ensar, yes, you can count on me. ;)
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#69
That is awesome guys. Must be amazing to see all that work come to fruition. Have there been times you were certain you had a killer oil brewing and it came out, you swiped a little on your arm, took a big deep breath and...meh...not what you hoped for?

How about the opposite, where the oil just blew you away, even more than you imagined it would? Which ones were those?
 

m.arif

Active Member
#70
@bhanny About kinam now that's something I've yet to get the chance to explore. Let's wait for @Ensar's reply. :)

I've seen Adam write/explain in videos about analyzing the hydrosol of an ongoing distillation, and make adjustments to the distillation based on how the hydrosol develops.

What do you (the craftsmen) look for in analyzing the hydrosol? What are the changes that you would make depending on the development? Do all distillers do this? Or only those who want to produce artisanal oud do it? Or perhaps only some of the artisanal craftsmen?

I know there are lots of questions on folks' minds.
C'mon.. three distillers here, people. All with hands-on wood and oil experience. If I had this opportunity back when I was just a consumer, I'd practically drive the distillers mad with all my questions. ;)

Maybe @Taherg @bhanny @J65 can join in. Let's make the distillers as mad as possible with questions until Taha gets back. Thanks @Taha for the idea :p And best wishes for the expedition !
 

Adam

Well-Known Member
#72
@ Taha, thank you for your words… my eyes were a bit watering reading about your reaction…
@bhanny and arif, thank you guys for so many exiting questions… we will try to deal with them all… hihi

however there were some attempts to spread confusion and I would like to ask Ensar what he think about the comments made by people who labeled the wood me and Ali used for our Koon Mai Wan oil farmed…? I do believe you got quite a bit of experience with Thai agarwood, so I would really want to hear more of your thoughts on this...
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#73
Asalamualaykum, peace and greetings to all.
Wa alaikum as salaam wa rahmatullah, Taherg! Great to see you here! A hearty welcome! :)

Have there been times you were certain you had a killer oil brewing and it came out, you swiped a little on your arm, took a big deep breath and...meh...not what you hoped for?
Okay, here we go.... The oil that comes out the first day is different to the oil that comes out the second day, which in turn is different to what you're going to smell on the third day.... With all those differences, one smell invariably permeates all the various 'fractions' that keep coming from the same brew, and it is the smell of your POT and distillation set-up.... :eek:

So to answer your question bhanny, just like with a live birth when a human being is brought into the world, you can't directly tell what exactly he is going to look like; his eye color is not determined yet; you can't make anything of his temperament, physiognomy or character.... A period of at least three months is needed to fully understand what you've just distilled.

Needless to say, there are hints and telltale signs of what is to come, but you just won't 'really' know what you've distilled until at least a few months down the line.

Most of the time, the oil will only improve as you age it. On only one occasion, the reverse occurred with one of my oils. I thought I'd just distilled the next Purple Kinam when the oud was still brewing, and the oil smelled fantastic for at lest the first month or two.... Then the signature 'pot' smell of the distillery creeped out on the third or fourth month, giving the kinamiferous tones of the oil an unwanted twang which was an absolute bummer for me......

@bhanny About kinam now that's something I've yet to get the chance to explore. Let's wait for @ensar's reply.
Well the 'kinam' note is the holy grail of all things oud, at least in the Japanese Kodo tradition, which focuses on heating the raw wood rather than distillation; and more recently in the Chinese agarwood fancy, which is almost like a cultural 'repossession' of the whole Kinam tradition (Shoyeido and Baieido ain't selling though, no matter how many millions the Chinese are willing to pay for their company stashes!) After all, agarwood doesn't grow in Japan while it does grow in China, and more specifically the species that is traditionally associated with the formation of Kyara is named nothing other than aquilaria sinensis – Chinese Aquilaria!

Once the Chinese masters took to 'kinam culture', everything became Kinam! :D

All of a sudden, you had Kinam discoveries in Cambodia, Laos, Brunei.... The last discovery that I heard of by my Chinese distiller (who mans the pots for many of our productions) was as he was sifting through some Papuan agarwood he was about to grind up, when he spotted one singular piece that looked rather 'peculiar'.... He said, I picked it out, heated it, and said 'This is the Papua Kinam!'

Apart from a smell of watermelons that had gone Italian peppers, I didn't personally pick up anything as striking as the classic Vietnamese and Chinese Kyara varietals when he heated it up for me....

Another development of the Kinam culture is identifying the note of Kinam in oud oils, as per bhanny's comment. This is where the game gets tricky. To the Chinese, it is only natural that they seek to identify a note that is as prized as this in oils that they are going to put on their skin, and more often than not end up ingesting in the form of teas and medicinal remedies. To us in the West, picking up the 'kinam note' in an oil was seen as just a very clever form of marketing, until recent times when there has been a more wider acceptance of it.

I have a few developments and surprises that I plan to post about this particular topic, so do stay tuned! Maybe we should start a separate thread discussing Kyara and Kinam, so as not to diverge from the general discussion here?

I've seen Adam write/explain in videos about analyzing the hydrosol of an ongoing distillation, and make adjustments to the distillation based on how the hydrosol develops. What do you (the craftsmen) look for in analyzing the hydrosol? What are the changes that you would make depending on the development? Do all distillers do this? Or only those who want to produce artisanal oud do it? Or perhaps only some of the artisanal craftsmen?
Nope, not all distillers do this. From our house, Kruger tried to play around with it during the Sultan Series distillations. For our other oils, we have a set number of parameters in place which ensure the process goes according to plan (these are all hush hush though, so I can't go into specifics).

there were some attempts to spread confusion and I would like to ask Ensar what he think about the comments made by people who labeled the wood me and Ali used for our Koon Mai Wan oil farmed…? I do believe you got quite a bit of experience with Thai agarwood, so I would really want to hear more of your thoughts on this...
I was shocked to read the comments made about the origin of that wood, Adam.... I couldn't believe it.... Anyone who has seen or handled Thai agarwood (or any kind of Indochinese wood for that matter) would know just by looking at the video that the wood is wild. I saw you tried to reason with the brother, 'Wait, you haven't smelled the wood!' – I can tell you right now, I don't need to smell anything... just seeing the video, the thickness and hardness of that wood... I know as I do I am alive, that wood was 100% wild. Look at the thickness of that resin, the sturdiness, and how it flies the minute it is chopped up. Cultivated wood NEVER does that. It is like mush. Soft, pliable, flimsy stuff that can never possess that kind of hardness. Just take a look at the pictures he points out as an illustration on my Thai Kodo page: All the wood is flimsy, irregular thin circles that are pliable, easy to squash into pieces with your hands, or to chop up with a cleaver, offering no resistance at all....
 

bhanny

Well-Known Member
#74
@Ensar - Thanks. GREAT analogy on the developing human being. It actually makes entire sense to me. That's a cool way to put it watching my own little boys develop.

@Ensar - I started a new kinam/kyara thread. Can't wait to hear more. I'm so blown away by this stuff. I'm constantly at odds with myself about wearing Kynam No. 1. I want it all the time. But I want it to last forever. In fact I'd like my boys to share sone when they get older.

@Ensar@Adam - Thank you for further clarification on this unfortunately highly sensitive subject over there. Sorry Adam you had to endure this. The oil, as I've said repeatedly there is quite lovely, but the wood was best left to others as I have zero experience. I could feel how it pained you and it left a bitter pit in my stomach.
 
#75
The world of Oud oil can be quite elusive, certainly more so than Oud wood as far as I have experienced. I have received several batches of wood and detecting glue and other funny business is not exactly rocket science. Moreover, even looking at tell tale signs in the wood can OFTEN indicate the reality of the woods quality.

The average oud lover however, is typically unable to detect essential oil and organic adulterants to Oud oil LET alone synthetics comprising some or even most of a claimed 'oud oil'. This without doubt, puts the consumer at risk and essentially dependent on the seller to provide what has been stated.

Without a doubt the first step in protecting oneself as a consumer is to source oils from trustworthy sources....

As a consumer however, are there any indicators...tell tale signs etc. that one could look for in trying to identify the reality of the oil with respect to:
1. Wild vs Plantation
2. Age
3. Natural/organic adulterants
4. Synthetic adulterants

Without a doubt, all of the above are serious issues in the Oud world. However, given the possible harm to be brought about from certain synthetics (particularly those used in south east asia I gather) it would perhaps take precedence in learning to detect and avoid.

It is critical that we as consumers, to protect our love for this tradition, seek to be better informed on these issues.

Any feedback would be much appreciated
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#76
I'm constantly at odds with myself about wearing Kynam No. 1. I want it all the time. But I want it to last forever. In fact I'd like my boys to share sone when they get older.
Hehe, I definitely share that sentiment! :)

given the possible harm to be brought about from certain synthetics (particularly those used in south east asia I gather) it would perhaps take precedence in learning to detect and avoid. Any feedback would be much appreciated
It has crossed my mind more than once – no, more than a dozen times – to put together a 'DOP ID Kit' offering various oils, with different degrees of adulteration, and various adulterants, but specifically the ones used by the major Gulf houses, so as to help train users in DOP / adulterant identification when smelling oud.

The only problem with that is, I'm unspeakably sensitive to any and all chemicals. My house is pretty much a chemical-free home, I go way out of my way to avoid toxins, eat natural and organic, and of course, wear only the highest quality natural fragrances. You'll see me cross the street holding my nose if there's a car with the engine running parked on my side of the street, and I've complained to the admins of my local mosque for the toxic air fresheners they constantly pump into our lungs at prayer as though it were sadaqa.... In fact, I've got such a low threshold for synthetics, I will give a negative rating to an Uber that contains air freshener. Ending up in such a ride is the ruination of my afternoon, and you’ll see me take rapid shallow breaths as I count the minutes to my destination. I'll open the windows in a panic (only to be greeted by the exhaust of other cars going by), try to talk some sense to the driver about the carcinogenicity and imminent death that lies hidden in the fragrance they're inhaling all day long..... You get the picture.

Given the degree of my sensitivity, I would be very very relieved if one of the other vendors would volunteer to put that kit together....

To give you some general pointers though....

I’ve known DOP since the early days of dealing with the Gulf houses of Dubai, and can recognize it from a mile away. The minute I open a package containing a box containing a bottle containing an oil that contains DOP, I can tell DOP has entered my house.....

DOP is the dastardly dogged scent that will stick to your fingertips even after just touching the plastic applicator to open a vial. On one occasion, I put a bubblewrap envelope that had arrived containing a DOP-tainted oil on top of my dresser, where several other oils stood, and anytime I walked by I could smell the DOP emanating from the vials, but not a single nuance of the other, natural ouds that stood next to them.

It's a salty, plastic-y, extremely penetrating and difficult to remove smell that will remain on your skin after many washes with soap. That's DOP. I was scared to actually apply any of the oils on my skin, although I promised the sender I would and that I’d study the aromas very closely. It's been months, and I still haven't been able to bring myself to open the vials again....

I remember taking sips of water from a glass bottle, and it was like I had a rush of DOP coming towards me as my hand came towards the face – just for having touched the tips of the applicators to open them; no oil was actually applied to the skin. That's DOP.

I guess DOP is to the Gulf oils what wax is to their woods and chips.... I don't get why they need to put a synthetic in the oils, when there are so many other, natural alternatives. It’s just the local ‘taste’ has become accustomed to it after being spoonfed it for decades, and anything not containing DOP is not immediately recognizable as ‘Oud’ by the local aesthetic I guess....
 

m.arif

Active Member
#77
It is critical that we as consumers, to protect our love for this tradition, seek to be better informed on these issues.

Any feedback would be much appreciated
I totally agree taher. As a start, it is best we consumers learn and share the signs to pay attention to regarding the points you mentioned. Wild vs plantation, glued / painted, etc. Perhaps a separate thread focusing specifically on this would be good. As for me I'll mostly do the reading and less contributing because I have little to no knowledge about it. So what do you guys think about this new thread? Go or no?

@ensar Trade secrets. Definitely hush hush. What do you do with the hydrosol then ? Do you always keep it for every batch or are there also buyers ? I've seen some perfume brands putting hydrosol as one of their ingredients.

Having a very sensitive nose is a double edged sword it seems. May Allah grant you strength and patience in facing your hardships.

The DOP ID KIT is a great idea! It would definitely help consumers a lot.

Another coming question is about the different fractions of oil..
 
#78
@bhanny About kinam now that's something I've yet to get the chance to explore. Let's wait for @ensar's reply. :)

I've seen Adam write/explain in videos about analyzing the hydrosol of an ongoing distillation, and make adjustments to the distillation based on how the hydrosol develops.

What do you (the craftsmen) look for in analyzing the hydrosol? What are the changes that you would make depending on the development? Do all distillers do this? Or only those who want to produce artisanal oud do it? Or perhaps only some of the artisanal craftsmen?
I would like to pick up @m.arif question on the hydrosol. I was fortunate to witness a distillation taking place while i was at Taha's place beginning of this year. I had a taste of the hydrosol and boy it was really potent stuff as i can feel a gush of heat cruising my entire body!

I presume the distiller is looking for specific notes when analysing the hydrosol to help him judge the fractions being extracted and adjusted the broiler's temperature if needed? Taha mentioned this during his distillation of Byakudan. I guess all artisan distillers will do this in order to extract the full spectrum of the wood to give the oil its multifaceted complexity.

Perhaps the distillers can input their comments?
 

Ensar Oud

Well-Known Member
#79
Perhaps a separate thread focusing specifically on this would be good. As for me I'll mostly do the reading and less contributing because I have little to no knowledge about it. So what do you guys think about this new thread? Go or no?
Definitely a go!

@ensar What do you do with the hydrosol then ? Do you always keep it for every batch or are there also buyers ? I've seen some perfume brands putting hydrosol as one of their ingredients.
People have inquired about buying the hydrosol, though logistically it simply would not be feasible for us to keep and store all of the hydrosol for every batch we make.... so unfortunately, it has to be 'donated' to the local distillers, who actually use it to 'upgrade' their normal oil batches, believe it or not. I've heard of them advertising to their wholesale buyers of mass produced oils: "I have a batch of super rare wild PNG hydrosol I just collected, is there anything you'd want me to distill for you with it?"

I have a hard enough time transporting oils with all the regulations they have now for liquids, so having to move gallons upon gallons of hydrosol for every batch of oud would be a logistical nightmare, from where I stand :(

I presume the distiller is looking for specific notes when analysing the hydrosol to help him judge the fractions being extracted and adjusted the broiler's temperature if needed? I guess all artisan distillers will do this in order to extract the full spectrum of the wood to give the oil its multifaceted complexity.
Another coming question is about the different fractions of oil..
From my own experience, the only oils we ever went into super 'fractional' distillations with were either the ultra funky ones, like traditional Hindis; or the experimental Thai organics; or the ultra long, slow distilled PNG batches of the Sultan Series, the last 'fraction' of which was invariably a solid, waxy substance we labelled the 'Thaqeel' version of each batch (so you'd have Sultan Ahmet and Sultan Ahmet 'Thaqeel' for example).

With my experience of Hindi oils, in about 50% of the cases I ended up combining the various fractions because I found the separated batches to be too simple, for all their beauty and 'cleanness' of character.

The Thai organics were quite a success, and we did some really interesting work with oils like Oud al Kaabah, taking very specific fractions from various batches and combining them to get an ultra versatile, 'all-encompassing' sort of profile that contained only the notes I wanted present in the oil.

The PNG 'thaqeel' oils were just too unique to blend with the rest of the batch, thick and incensey as they were, so I offered those separately from the main batches.

My other oils that you all know (which are coincidentally the 'Kinam' and 'Kyara' Oriscent style oils) were not fractionated. The secret lies in fractionating via the distillation style itself, rather than cooking straight up and physically fractionating oil.
 

Taha

Well-Known Member
#80
Let's talk Oud: a detailed discourse (part 2)

So as many of you know, I've been busy focusing on The Philippines for close to 7 months. Sadly, I've been forced to throw in the towel. The expenses added up way, way, way too much, and there was no wood to show for all the efforts and expenses.
Every time, there was one issue or another. Sometimes trees were found, but we didn't succeed in getting one or another from the 3 permits required (DENR, mayor, barangay captain and/or jungle tribal chief). Other times, we managed to get all the necessary permits and the approval of all requisite parties, but no suitable trees (and sometimes NO trees) were found.
Its all been quite crazy! Some of the wood I saw would make you drool. But I couldn't touch it. This one time, our team passed through a section of the jungle with three massive sick/dying trees close to each other (this is comparable to finding 3 suitcases full of millions in cash, sitting next to each other). But... we didn't have permission to harvest in this section, the team was only passing through here to get to the section we were allowed to harvest from. Can you imagine how bad the urge was to chop down those trees? :) Especially after all the recent failed hunting expeditions... *sigh*

Impasugong is an unbelievably tough jungle. After we finally returned from there back to the hotel in CDO, Amab mentioned that he's NEVER experienced a jungle as difficult as this. And he's a guy who's slept for months in the jungles of Endau-Rompin and Kuala Tahan: i.e. the 2 toughest jungles with the craziest wild animals and roughest terrains in peninsular Malaysia.
Ahmad nearly died about four times (well, we all nearly did). He's a short guy, and so when the team was crossing a cliff this one time (land was about a kilometer below) everyone hopped from a rock on this side to a rock on the other, but he couldn't. And so he decided to swing over, hanging off a vine. What he didn't know was that there would be sharp rocks in transit. He was smacked in the ribs with them, he fell, and he rolled down a good distance. He sustained serious injuries from this fall, but alhamdulillah he's alive. Actually, every single team member fell, even Dato' Edwin – the Higaonon chieftain who was part of our team and doesn't know life outside the jungle.
William, another team member, suffered a stroke right in front of me due to how severe the terrain was. We ended up cutting the trip short, and I had to drive back to town (despite my eye condition, keratoconus – I'm NOT supposed to drive). Ahmad can't cope with left-hand drive (I could, having come from Canada), and no one else knew how to drive. William was supposed to but.. well.. by now, the entire right side of his body was paralyzed. 9 hours on the road, driving the 4x4 through rivers of unknown depths, rocks and cliffs, and my eyes felt like popcorm.

Long story short.... extremely tough expedition, and no wood. Not even a splinter.
But what really broke my heart was an incident that happened after I finally came back home. I was talking to a certain wholesale client and... he asked for a discount. *sigh*
I had been sitting when the discount was demanded. I involuntarily sprang to my feet the moment the words fell on my ears. My heart started pounding, and suddenly all the bruises and tears felt fresh on my body. I said, as calmly as possible, look... I have no problem giving you a discount. But there's one condition. I'm gonna line up 10 guys. One will be missing a limb, another missing an eye, another limping because of a snake bite, and perhaps one who's brother died during the expedition. If you can talk to each hunter, one by one, and convince them to lower the price of the wood, then I will gladly give you ANY price that they're happy with. My own personal profit comes out to be about 5.5%, and I don't care how that's affected. You have to ask THEM for the discount.

He ended up not buying anything.

In certain parts of the world, wholesale buyers are still living in the 80's and 90's.
They expect prices to stay the same, despite the fact that it now takes months to find a mother tree in the jungle (and the success rate is currently about 15-20% based on my experience, with the most amazing veteran Khmer hunters doing the hunting). Now compare that to how things actually were in Malaysia, back in the 80's and 90's. All you needed was a long weekend. Grab an axe, drive down to the closest jungle, go in for a couple hours (okay, more like 6-8 hours), and you'd find an awesome tree.
That is not the case any more. And so, naturally the prices are not the same any more.

Now my own opinion about wild high grade wood (and I define that as wood from mother and grandmother trees) is that it is priceless. Any price tag you try to put on it, even something as 'low' as B grade is not enough. High grade oud should not be a tradable commodity; it should be too expensive to afford, and something that only those directly involved in the the harvest, deserve to possess (yep, that would exclude even me, 'the boss', for every trip I was not physically a part of).
The pain, hazards, and deaths in this industry are far far higher than the ruby or diamond industry. And so, (wild high grade) agarwood should be even more expensive, or rather, priceless, as I stated above.

I wish I could share some photos and videos from the recent Impasugong excursion. But aside from the fact that hardly anyone got to take any NatGeo grade photos or videos (when you've been walking in a squatted position for hours, and have to use your hands to slash vines blocking the way, you can barely hold a camera phone, let alone snap a pic or video), I actually dropped my phone in the jungle. :p Collectively, we just have about 3 photos and 2 videos in total. Certainly not 'entertaining enough' for putting together a video.

We are about a week away from the next jungle trek, this time a different country, different island. We've had success here in the past but faced different challenges here. I've generally avoided talk of religion/spirituality/supernatural events in my blog posts and product descriptions. But if I share everything, that would mean stepping into that domain. I guess, those who don't believe in supernatural events will just have to come up with their own conclusions. :)

I'll have to leave that for another post though. My back is killing me, I've been a vegetable for the past few days due to a severe back injury I sustained in preparation for the next trip (m.arif, whom I met yesterday, can confirm I look like an 80yr old, ha!). So for now, I have to go rest a bit.
I sure hope I recover in time because.... the folks we're about to go meet are just about the most anti-social, anti-foreigner, and anti-logging people in the world. I have been authorized/initiated by a different chieftain from a different sub-tribe, so I hope I'm able to use that to my advantage. Hopefully, this chief will grant us permission (we already have the government-level approval, but need the tribal approval as well).
They've got some pretty unusual cultural anomalies. To give some examples: bringing flowers is NOT an act of friendship of love, its an act of war. Having a beard means you're a sorcerer (so imagine me going there, ha! Not to mention, I have to use a walking stick these days, I'm practically Gandalf). And the list goes on.
Thank God, we have two team members from the same mother-tribe. One is actually an ex-commando, and the other specializes in negotiating with jungle people (due to his old government job in the timber industry). Even though they're from different sub-tribes, I hope we will be granted permission by these folks. They are VERY different from all the other sub-tribes. They roam around in the nude, blacken and sharped their teeth, have long ears and necks, sport mohawks, and... one of their first 'tests' is a game of black magic to "size you up".
That I am nervous about the encounter would be the understatement of the century.

Getting awesome wood today is a challenge. No, its more than just a challenge, its next to impossible. There's a juicy hot topic under discussion in the "Ensar & Adam Musings" thread, and I wanted to share my two cents on this topic, and tie it in with the facts and figures from the supply side – the jungle.