Let's talk Oud: a detailed discourse on the various aspects of this substance we love

[m.arif]

@Taha I've seen many senior citizens who are WAY better off than you were yesterday. The visit was very pleasant! But seeing you in that state wasn't pleasing at all Is it improving?

A lot of talk going on right now. Trying hard to keep up with the discussions! Other days..SOTD thread outshines everything else

 

[Luigi]

Taha, I removed the first paragraph of your post that dealt with the tread being down and moving the new thread to this one, to avoid confusion to new members.

If you don't now what happened, this thread was inactive for a while but it is, as you can all see, back up now

 

[m.arif]

Ensar's post which I didn't get to read right before the thread got bugged!

The idea perhaps had become stale, but what do you guys think of a new thread discussing "wild vs cultivated"? Is it still a "go" for you guys?

 

[Adam]

@ Taha,
I ask God Almighty to grant you fast recovery, reward you with what is good for this world and for the life after death.

I really want to cry thinking how many people have absolutely no clue about behind the scene part of Agarwood business.
They come in to a fancy shops, sit on the sofas burning chip after chip demanding discount but if they could imagine the hardship and the struggle behind the scene probably many would simply refuse to use it… well I may be wrong...
I also highly admire your legal approach. If 99% of wild agarwood hunters read you post and see that you passed those "2 cases" full of cash pretending that you not see them only because you could not harvest them legally … oh my God… they would laugh hard or simply think you are out of your mind… 99,9% of them would never understand this…

 

[Adam]

@ m.arif,
….."wild vs cultivated"? Is it still a "go" for you guys?….

hmmm… reading Taha’s thoughts… Ensar thoughts… thinking myself… seeing several releases of aged, wild oils… reading Ensar article on The End of Organic Oud… knowing customer demand for the highest quality, (aged or fresh) wild oud oils… I am really puzzled…

it seems that cultivated agarwood is the only solution to stop the paranoia, struggle and deadly hunter race…
however, swipe some of the finest wild oud oils on your right hand and a typical farmed oil on your left and think about the answer…

 

[m.arif]

@Adam then a question might come...should the "good guys" leave whatever that's left to the unethical hunters? truly a question filled with dilemma, which I think would eventually end up upon the individual. those who care about agarwood definitely would think about this seriously. for others, common folk, it wont affect their lives whether agarwood goes extinct or not. most dont even use cultivated oud..well let's hear what others have to say..

 

[kesiro]

@ m.arif,
….."wild vs cultivated"? Is it still a "go" for you guys?….

hmmm… reading Taha’s thoughts… Ensar thoughts… thinking myself… seeing several releases of aged, wild oils… reading Ensar article on The End of Organic Oud… knowing customer demand for the highest quality, (aged or fresh) wild oud oils… I am really puzzled…

it seems that cultivated agarwood is the only solution to stop the paranoia, struggle and deadly hunter race…
however, swipe some of the finest wild oud oils on your right hand and a typical farmed oil on your left and think about the answer…

Hello Adam!
For me, wild vs cultivated is not a big issue. Some of the cultivated offerings are bridging the gap IMO. Seems to me as an outsider, that no matter what the preferences may be, the harsh reality is that the future of Oud at some point is going to be cultivated wood. Obviously, competing against 100 year old wild trees with many years of infection is not a fair fight.

 

[The Seeker]

Hello Adam!
For me, wild vs cultivated is not a big issue. Some of the cultivated offerings are bridging the gap IMO. Seems to me as an outsider, that no matter what the preferences may be, the harsh reality is that the future of Oud at some point is going to be cultivated wood. Obviously, competing against 100 year old wild trees with many years of infection is not a fair fight.

I agree with you 100%.
What Ensar has done with his organic oils is incredible.
Aroha Kyaku is hands down one of the best oils I've ever tried and for the price he let it go at? Madness. I've smelt oils from other vendors that aren't online who sell oils around the $200/3g mark and none of them have come close to any of Ensar's organic distills.

 

[kesiro]

I agree with you 100%.
What Ensar has done with his organic oils is incredible.
Aroha Kyaku is hands down one of the best oils I've ever tried and for the price he let it go at? Madness. I've smelt oils from other vendors that aren't online who sell oils around the $200/3g mark and none of them have come close to any of Ensar's organic distills.

No doubt! AK is a perfect example. Unreal for the price. Would easily include Mostafa No. 5 as well.

 

[The Seeker]

Staying on this topic, I'd be interested to hear from the vendors especially on what they think the future holds for Oud?

For Ensar, shall we not expect any future oils to be priced similarly to your current organic range prices, can we expect any more organic oils from you or is this the end? Do you see yourself dealing exclusively in wild-distillations from now on? I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on this.

I feel shameful of asking you about this because I know you view the sales of your oils as gifts entrusted to your customers rather than business but as I'm studying at University, I rarely have the funds to buy oud and your organic range has provided me with a lifeline to at least keep trying new oils. If I could, and trust me on this, I'd buy all of your oils by the tolas!

 

[m.arif]

As mentioned by Ensar in another thread, pots that were used to craft the sultan series oils were only cleaned simply, not throughly, and the cultivated oud that gets distilled right after would be lifted a few levels up from what it would've been if a totally clean boiler was used. So could cultivated Oud reach that high standard without the contributions from wild high end distillations prior to it?

I also read from Adam's website that some cultivators used post distillation water as inoculants for their trees. I wonder what kind of trees could be produced by Post distillation water from high end distillations..

Could the same water from high end projects be used to distill cultivated oud to give it an exrra oomph?

 

[Ensar Oud]

I'd be interested to hear from the vendors especially on what they think the future holds for Oud? For Ensar, shall we not expect any future oils to be priced similarly to your current organic range prices, can we expect any more organic oils from you or is this the end? Do you see yourself dealing exclusively in wild-distillations from now on? I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on this.

The future of oud is unfolding right before us as we speak.... In fact, we're squarely in the 'future' at this point... Oud's glorious past is long gone. We saw an alarming and tragic decline in just over ten years....

The oils I experienced at the London OudFest were a serious reality check for me, to see exactly where the oud market is headed.... Cheap distillations of very low grade wood, which are sold with 'Borneo 3000' as a reference point. @Shabby can attest that at least two oils were not even recognizably from the places of origin they claimed to be, not to speak of the integrity of the distillations, or the quality of raw materials. Bottom line: The oils that you see being offered at $200 - $300 all over the internet are not 'true' wild oud. Quite simply, they are a commodity that is being supplied to fill a demand. Full stop. I wouldn't have believed it myself – I didn't believe it myself, when Taha pointed it out to me – until I "read 'em and wept" at the London OudFest....

As for my own projects, I have resolved to focus exclusively on wild distillations going forward, as I simply cannot afford to put any efforts into cultivation while we see the very last few harvests of wild agarwood being collected. Wild oud is literally being wiped off the face of the earth as we speak, and there will come a day when it remains a distant memory for most of us.

In terms of organic offerings, I may have several oils still on hand that remain unreleased, but I won't be producing any new batches from here on, so long as wild agarwood is still available to me. The current Assam Organic will be my last cultivated Hindi. Oud Mostafa No 5 is the last cultivated Cambodi. There's a bit of Oud Yusuf available, but the price may have to be adjusted to reflect the current reality of that oil.

There are times when a colleague will decide he's had enough of agarwood and entrust me with his life's work, which is how we come across the likes of Tigerwood 1995. This is the very best scenario for everyone involved, as we get a 100% wild distillation that's been aged for decades, and costs less than a high quality organic distillation. But such things happen once in a very blue moon....

 

[Shabby]

This makes me very sad to hear about cultivated wood...

But...I have a little dream, which is to set aside a small amount of land in Sri Lanka, for the growth of very high quality cultivated wood.

The vision is very long term: growing trees on land which mimics the wilderness as closely as possible, perhaps with the consultation of artisanal distillers as to the best conditions for growth, particular plants to grow alongside the oud trees etc....pure water from some rainforest land that we own. It will not be a source of income, so there will be no pressure to rush anything, everything goes towards quality without compromise. I would only start it on the assumption that it is pure sunk cost.

Then for the harvest and distillation many years down the line, it is reserved solely for the artisans. Maybe sending the same wood to different distillers to see their unique take on it.

Anyway, with God's help perhaps it will be possible. I am quietly hopeful

 

[Ensar Oud]

Now, I'll have to make an exception: If YOU are the farmer, then I'm all in for cultivated oud!

 

[The Seeker]

This makes me very sad to hear about cultivated wood...

But...I have a little dream, which is to set aside a small amount of land in Sri Lanka, for the growth of very high quality cultivated wood.

The vision is very long term: growing trees on land which mimics the wilderness as closely as possible, perhaps with the consultation of artisanal distillers as to the best conditions for growth, particular plants to grow alongside the oud trees etc....pure water from some rainforest land that we own. It will not be a source of income, so there will be no pressure to rush anything, everything goes towards quality without compromise. I would only start it on the assumption that it is pure sunk cost.

Then for the harvest and distillation many years down the line, it is reserved solely for the artisans. Maybe sending the same wood to different distillers to see their unique take on it.

Anyway, with God's help perhaps it will be possible. I am quietly hopeful

I pray you succeed in your efforts!

 

[m.arif]

@shabby A similar thought actually crossed my mind, but at a smaller scale. Was thinking of a few trees in my grand uncle's backyard in the village area. Let it grow till my grandkids have kids! If that plan ever comes to fruition please let us all know. I'll have a good excuse to visit Serandib

 

[m.arif]

@Ensar have you visited the huge plantation in Gopeng,Perak?

 

[bhanny]

Dang. I'd love to help. But I'm fairly sure the climate here in Virginia probably wouldn't be all that conducive to growing good trees.

 

[Shabby]

Haha I am hypothetically honoured @Ensar and thanks @TheSeeker.

@m.arif I certainly will and perhaps I'd get the chance to visit yours!

@bhanny I don't know the climate in Virginia but seeing that the various subspecies cover quite a substantial geographic range, perhaps you have a shot!

 

[m.arif]

Haha I an hypothetically honoured @Ensar and thanks @TheSeeker.

@m.arif I certainly will and perhaps I'd get the chance to visit yours!

@bhanny I don't know the climate in Virginia but seeing that the various subspecies cover quite a substantial geographic range, perhaps you have a shot!

Aha. A few trees would really mean a few trees. Anyway, the gopeng plantation says their agarwood is a super hybrid of 12 sub-species, thus calling it "holistic gaharu". I wonder how their trees look like on the inside.